Dionne Warwick

I know Dataloungers love to make fun of how bitchy and sketchy she is, but there's still no denying she's one of the greatest pop singers of the last half of the 20th century.

I always thought part of the secret to her success is her sincerity. She never elaborately interprets her songs--she sings them so simply and honestly. is she looked down upon by other singers from her era who were big emoters / actors when they sang, like Streisand? I don't think Streisand would have been as successful with those Hal David lyrics as Dionne was--they are sugary enough without emoting.

If you're a singer who knows what you're about, I don't see how you could look down on Dionne.

Miss Warwick would sincerely like you to give her twenty dollars.

Déjà Vu. I saw this thread coming.

She was a brilliant interpreter of songs. Her '60s material is so strong, even Aretha and Diana Ross would not have been able to disagree.

Yes. She's also excellent on Twitter.

She had some very underrated albums even post Bacharach in the late 70s and early 80s, before she sort of fell into the treacle and then lost her voice from all them Newports.

That's What Friends are For!

No one, but no one, can dispute her greatness with those Bacharach tunes.

Her duet with Glen Campbell surprised me. They were from different types of musical genres, but they sounded great together.

I love the Love Power video. :)

Miss Warwick is a fucking legend, on the DL and IRL.

Justifiably.

The Bacharach songs are notoriously hard to sing. I doubt anyone looks down on her.

Not just anybody can sing this.

I do not like this shit about speaking about in the past tense and acting like I haven't had a tremendous career in the last 20+ years.

I'd say Re's grandchildren were told to spread lies about me to get some pittance out of the estate, but I happen to know they're too slow to know how to write. So you're rude and uninformed. Get with the present, people. And buy my fucking new music. I have three more Christmas albums coming out in October.

And as far as naked emotions, clarity of delivery and vocal control, here. Again. Since you like my early brilliance.

[italic]You're welcome.[/italic]

Honestly, I never cared for the bitch.

This is how it's done, Miss Warwick

[Quote]Not just anybody can sing this.

R14 Hey, I'm not just anybody!

R12 That'a a nice enough pop tune but it doesn't begin to show her abilities the way the Bacharach recordings do.

R18 Cilla Black had such an abrasive voice.

You could light stick matches on Cilla Black's vocal cords.

I know because I did it.

Bitch.

She looks like Redd Fox now just before he died.

I love when fans try to fit my best performances on one or two little videos, God bless them.

I hope it doesn't frustrate them too much. I suggest just listening to all of them.

ON ALBUMS THEY BUY.

[quote]Her duet with Glen Campbell surprised me.

Why? Glen Campbell was a pro. He performed duets with every singer who appeared on his shows from Natalie Cole to Liza.

Check this out. Walk on By / Dionne Warwick. She’s beautiful in her own way. Audience is kind of strange looking.

Band accompaniment is awesome.

Unassailable.

What sort of chicken shit venue is that, R27? No wonder she went broke. Maybe reefer was already legal in Belgium back then.

That family has never been able to manage their money properly, R29

Dionne has said: if I want something, I buy it.

Her pitch started to go to shit but the 60s and 70s were great.

Yeah, her high notes are shot. Too much smoking.

She was never good. She simply sing the melody of the song. She was lucky Burt and Hal love her. Anyone would be able to sing their songs and popularize it. Her cousin Whitney was a talent on the other hand.

I think the highlight of Dionne's career is her bitching on the celebrity apprentice. The phrase "I got your number Hussy" will forever be remembered unlike most of her song.

I told these hussies 20 was the minimum for speaking en-gage-e-mentseses, Miss Warwick.

It's funny how when people imagine they're being hilarious bitchy they actually are revealing how pathetic they are.

We put a little Shug Avery pee in R34's water, see how she likes that.

I was working @ NBC in the 70’s. writing arrangements for The Dean Martin Show. Dionne guested. Live on air back then.

As she got up to sing she plopped her 2 young sons next to me on the piano bench. Imagine trying to perform with bratty kids pulling on my arms. It was so chaotic and silly I began giggling. Thought I was going to be fired.

She was great to work with.

She's still performing, bitches!

The BBC repeated Burt Bacharach: A Life In Song on Friday night from 2015. Burt did a Q&A segment and artists came on and recorded the classics, some more successfully than others.

Burt was gushing in his praise of Dionne and spoke of his admiration for Dusty. When Cilla's version of Anyone Who Had A Heart was brought up the audience cheered and Burt didn't say anything complimentary about it. It was notable that Anyone Who Had A Heart was performed by Burt's longtime backing singer Josie James and not one of the invited guests. Josie James got a response unlike any of the other performances.

But back to Dionne - her voice doesn't soar like Aretha or Whitney but she doesn't need to. She's timeless.

I'm also partial to 1993's Sunny Weather Lover, the song that reunited Bacharach & David. Less fond of Where My Lips Have Been which is just unnecessary.

[quote]That's a nice enough pop tune but it doesn't begin to show her abilities the way the Bacharach recordings do.

R20 did you listen all the way through? It's the arpeggios and improvisation toward the end that amaze me and highlight Miss W's vocal control and range.

Will she be wearing her new Fred Sanford style costumes onstage during the tour? Complemented with smoking a full flavor Camel cigarette in between songs? 🐪 🚬

It's nearly 40 years since Dionne had her biggest hit in the UK.

Heartbreaker spent 2 weeks at #2 in November '82 stuck behind Eddy Grant's I Don't Wanna Dance. Tears for Fears' Mad World was stuck at #3.

Dionne outsold Hall & Oates with Maneater and Paul McCartney and Paedo Jackson's The Girl Is Mine.

Donna's State Of Independence and Diana's Muscles were hovering in the top 20 that week but didn't make the top 10.

I wonder if she ever considered dropping the last letter of her surname & just be known as Dionne Warwic.

She was on The Rockford Files.

I actually love Diana Ross' version of Close To You a lot better. And yes, Miss Ross is singing live here.

The Pointer Sisters stole her show from her!

I love Dionne. I recognize there are better singers among her contemporaries, but I just like her vocals better. Maybe it’s because I’m the age where I didn’t really know about her until her late 70s music and from Solid Gold. I didn’t get into her 60s era until I was much older.

She also looks like my (white) aunt by marriage. When I was a kid, I asked Aunt Helen if anyone had ever told her she looked like Dionne. She said yes and was pissed. I got in trouble with my mom for that. I thought it was a cool thing to resemble the glamorous star of Solid Gold, but apparently not.

Glen Campbell looked so sexy and handsome in the clip. He must have been working out...he looks muscular underneath his suit.

Josie James!

At first I was like "why is this bish whispering" but she SANG that!

One of my fave Dionne songs that doesn’t get as much fanfare as it probably deserves.

“You’re Gonna Need Me” from 1972

Dionne, in her prime, singing live - Alfie.

"I got your number, hussy."

This 3-second video should seque into a longer video that shows what came before. Dionne had a discussion with Nikki Taylor (model). IMO, Dionne was not being rude to Nikki. Nikki was acting like Dionne was being too rough for her (Nikki's) tender sensibilities.

I don't watch the Apprentice, so did not see the whole season.

Frankly, sad that Dionne feels the need to participate in this kind of BS.

Still her best live performances of Alfie in that clip from R54. And here she is slaying all of her hits on Ed Sullivan, pregnant and looking elegant.

Here's the exchange between Dionne & Nikki Taylor before Dionne said: "I got your number, hussy."

Dionne is giving Star Jones a recap and it seems like Star did want to laugh b/c Dionne is hilarious.

Would love to find a good-quality, live, prime Dionne, version of "Valley of the Dolls."

She still sounded damn good here.

R34 You're full of shit. Whitney never sang a memorable song. She had pipes but no taste at all.

She has a different vibe from any of her contemporaries.

Thank you, R61. I did see that one (Carol Burnett show). I think that performance was pre-recorded (lip-synched), though.

[quote]is she looked down upon by other singers from her era who were big emoters / actors when they sang, like Streisand?

OP, how old are you? Streisand was in a different category than Dionne. Dionne was great for what she did, but Streisand was on another PLANET. Barbra was in the theater, with TV and records in the 1960s. She sang music for adults, not teens. She was a personality in addition. Movie stardom in the late 60s. THAT'S why Dionne was not in the same league.

This should work, r58--this is live.

One of my favorites…I thought it had been a bigger than it actually was.

You could fill a CD with Dionne's Hidden Gems from the 60s (and Rhino did). I have no idea why this wasn't a hit. I don't even think it was released as a single.

R55 best three seconds of reality tv

I used to call them the Soiled Goods Dancers.

Because I knew. And got 15% off the top for their "offstage performances."

Hi, JLOAD.

I hear if you say the words "Rex Smith" to Miss Warwick she flies into a rage!

She should've won an Oscar for this incredible performance.

Did Dionne replace Marilyn McCoo or was it the other way around?

Dionne had such an interesting career--hit after hit in the US in the 1960s, and man y overseas ("Do You Know the Way to San Jose?" was a bigger hit internationally than in the US). And then she had a big career slump in the mid 1970s, and she did that idiotic stunt of changing her name's spelling (based on a psychic's advice) to "Warwicke." but then in the 80s she had a string of hits again, which almost never happens: "Deja Vu," "heartbvreaker," 'That's What friends Are For," "I Know I'll Never Love This Way Again."

No one could replace Miss Warwick, of course, but I "stepped in."

Then she stepped in to replace me.

A good friend of mine was / is a musician (not famous) who entertains at hotels, parties, etc. He also is a session musician and knows other session musicians. He also worked room service at a hotel where Dionne stayed.

Also, a session musician friend of his (my friend's friend) used to work for Dionne.

My friend said that his session musician friend confronted Dionne about her moodiness. Told her that he'd rather have her just bitchy *all* the time so that he would know what to expect. (Not sure if he used the word "bitchy.")

My friend said that Dionne was grouchy at the hotel and, just to throw her off, friend flashed Dionne a huge smile as they crossed paths at the hotel. I said, "What did Dionne do?" He said she had no choice but to smile back at him.

So, R65 - what's the weather like on Planet Streisand?

R72, doesn't Dionne show all and go completely nude in "Slaves"? I don't want to see that.

[quote]So, [R65] - what's the weather like on Planet Streisand?

What R65 is true. It's not opinion.

No singer in the 1960s and 70s had a career like she had.

[quote] OP, how old are you? Streisand was in a different category than Dionne. Dionne was great for what she did, but Streisand was on another PLANET.

[italic]Mary.[/italic]

Yet again, another thread is ruined because a Streisand stan gets her nose out of joint simply because people have not done proper obeisance to their Queen of Queens.

Dionne was extraordinarily talented in her prime, one of the best ever.

[quote]lost her voice from all them Newports.

Virginia Slims

R81, there haven't been any Streisand threads for several weeks.

R71 "Solid Gold, the pop music show that is its own parody."--The New York Times

R85 The old queens are tired. It's been a hot summer.

Glen Campbell was a hot piece of ass.

I bet Glen had a big weiner.

R83 okay version, but to sing the title song of Barbra’s mega album year after its release doesn’t make sense

Why, R90? Weren't most of Dionne's 1980s albums covers?

R90 comparison to the studio version

OT Are you able to hear Dionne’s voice? I’m not. Quincy Jones produced it and got several names to sing back up vocals. Luther Vandross Peggi Blu Jennifer Holliday along with Dionne. Barbra’s vocals declined a great deal after One Voice in this album and were much better in a two new songs in her next album A Collection. Till I Loved You peaked #10 in US and sold platinum.

r90 when Dionne hosted Solid Gold she sang covers of songs that were hot on the charts at the time. She did that every week.

Late Gen Xer here and kids my age loved Solid Gold. That's how we got introduced to Dionne. She was everywhere in the 80s.

Dionne sings Aretha's Who's Zoomin Who on Solid Gold. Unfortunately there's some 80s VCR realness in this clip but she did a great job with what you can hear.

She sang all my songs and smoked all my cigarettes too.

So who had the bigger career - Dionne or her cousin Whitney? Better catalogue?

Nikki Taylor is a fetid CUNT.

Psychic Friends Network was a low point for Dionne. Solid Gold was, at least, not a scam.

[quote]So who had the bigger career - Dionne or her cousin Whitney? Better catalogue?

Whitney at her peak was bigger, but Dionne has a better catalogue and will be more enduring.

Dionne / Bacharach / Hal David was synergy, alchemy, whatever. It was like lightning striking.

I can't figure out Dionne's voice. It's low, but she did hit some high notes. Was it falsetto? Not quite, it seems. I think Diana Ross is a good comparison, maybe. Someone without a huge range of octaves, but with that je ne sais quois.

Dionne had a smokey voice (no pun intended) and was a natural contralto, kind of like Karen Carpenter. But she had an amazing range, and amazing vocal control, and far more power that Karen. Her voice was a unique gift.

The YouTube channel IloveArethaFranklin did an excellent job examining Dionne's voice from the beginning of her career to now.

[quote]Dionne / Bacharach / Hal David was synergy, alchemy, whatever. It was like lightning striking.

She never upstaged their work.

You just know that Bacharach wanted every note to be sung exactly as written and Hal David wanted every word to be heard.

Dionne, Burt and Hal in the studio putting "I Say A Little Prayer" together.

I've always loved footage of singers and musicians in the studio, showing how a song is created.

That was fun, R105. Thanks for the find.

Here's my favorite of hers. She does a totally retooled and soulful cover of Stevie Wonder's "All in Love is Fair".

R106 The tacky sliding up and down the scales thing. Dionne at her best didn't need to do vocal gymnastics.

He said "caterwauling" haha

r106 that's one of my favorites too.. She killed it on that.

[quote] She never upstaged their work. You just know that Bacharach wanted every note to be sung exactly as written and Hal David wanted every word to be heard.

Not sure what "every note ... exactly as written" means. I do think there are some things about a singer's voice that you just can't control, serendipitous things that are delightful. I do think that there was room for that with Dionne's voice. It's especially apparent in that live version of Alfie upthread.

She sounds a bit like Nancy Wilson at R106 - which may have been the intent, I think Nancy covered this song right about then.

Wait: just searched it and yes, Nancy's version was in 1974. Nancy slowed it down a bit, but Dionne sang it very slow.

Um, NO, R111. Never in one hundred million years.

Some YouTube channel is spilling tea on Miss Warwick!

R113 Betty Bowers was NOT featuring Miss Warwick - has posted shit about her several times in the last year

not to hijack the thread but Re's version also kicks ass

Did Re sing her version out of spite? Was there ever a singer who had so many songs covered by other artists as Dionne Warwick?

Aretha was insanely competitive with other singers. She probably viewed Dionne as her main competition at the time, even though their styles are pretty different. Someone mentioned in the recent Dusty Springfield thread that Aretha originally passed on "Son of a Preacher Man," but when Dusty had a hit with it, Aretha just *had* to have her version out there.

R112 I have ears, thanks.

R117 Aretha was a petty ass bitch.

Petty as the day is long. Got2BReal captured her perfectly.

Aretha was that, but come on - her career was stellar - 44 Grammy nominations/18 wins. Now, contrast that with our Miss Ross' one and only "We feel bad that we never gave you a Grammy, so take this token Grammy" Grammy.

Dionne does a little Donna (Summer).

That version is interesting, especially since other music is being mixed in with it (an EW&F song?)

I had to laugh at the idea of Miss Warwick moaning on the floor like Donna.....

[quote]Not sure what "every note ... exactly as written" means.

Why? Do have a reading comprehension problem?

Listen to the Bacharach recordings by Dionne in the 1960s. There's no fooling around with the melodies.

R116, it was typical during the 60s to have singers do renditions of other singer's songs, even immediately after the original was released. This happened with a lot of tunes.

But yes, Aretha had to get her hands on that, as stated.

Dionne has gone on record saying that she thoroughly resented whenever other people would cover her songs, each and every time. She would blow up at Bacharach each time he licensed a song to a competitor of hers. Also, Bacharach would get hired to craft songs for movies, like Alfie. For Alfie, being a UK film, they wanted Cilla Black to perform the title track. This fueled the fires between Black and Warwick even further. Alfie had nearly three dozen versions recorded in that year alone, until Bacharach decided to ask Warwick to sing the song to include as a last minute filler on her 1967 album Here Where There is Love. Warwick resisted at first, because the song was overdone, and she was still pissed at Cilla getting the first crack at it. She agreed to it, and ultimately Warwick's version became the most popular.

In the late 60s and early 70s, Warwick started doing covers of everyone else's songs, since 'everyone else is doing my songs'. She even threw shade at Cilla Black by covering her huge hit "You're My World" as a filler on her album Valley of the Dolls.

I think it went deeper with that re Dionne/Cilla.

Supposedly a few of Cilla's covers of Dionne were really similar - one where Dionne said she copied her right down to a breath/sigh.

R125, "Anyone who Had a Heart" was the only song Cilla did that was a cover of Dionne's, and yes, it was a very unimaginative copy of Dionne's vocals.

The only other song of similarity was Alfie, but Cilla did that first.

[quote]She even threw shade at Cilla Black by covering her huge hit "You're My World"

But let's remember that "You're My World" was an English language cover of the Italian "il Mio Mondo". And a French version was also a hit before Cilla's.

[Quote]Dionne has gone on record saying that she thoroughly resented whenever other people would cover her songs, each and every time.

Maybe that's Diana Ross hardly ever covered any of Dionne's songs -- the fear of an ass-kicking. Diana's voice was certainly suitable for many of Bacharach's songs.

[quote]For Alfie, being a UK film, they wanted Cilla Black to perform the title track. This fueled the fires between Black and Warwick even further. Alfie had nearly three dozen versions recorded in that year alone, until Bacharach decided to ask Warwick to sing the song to include as a last minute filler on her 1967 album Here Where There is Love. Warwick resisted at first, because the song was overdone, and she was still pissed at Cilla getting the first crack at it. She agreed to it, and ultimately Warwick's version became the most popular.

Sandie Shaw was offered Alfie first, and turned it down. Cilla was second choice. Cilla only agreed to record it if Bacharach was present for it. He made her sing it over and over again, something they covered in the Sheridan Smith biopic.

Cher was asked to record it for the American version of the movie and had a top 30 hit with it, and a year later Dionne had an even bigger hit.

A few years ago a Dionne biopic was announced at Cannes, with Lady Gaga playing Dionne's "nemesis" Cilla. It's a shame the movie never got made. I'd have loved to see Gaga play that deranged ginger bitch.

R127, thanks for the history lesson. I wouldn't have covered it if Cilla hadn't done it first, okay child?

[quote]Cher was asked to record it for the American version of the movie Thanks, R129! I was so sure Cher sang Alfie when I saw it that I looked up on IMDB and at first glance I only saw Cilla Black. But that was the UK version. Your post made me go back and I saw Cher did the US version.

Aretha Franklin's voice was more like shouting in "Say a Little Prayer." IMO.

Anyway, here's a very cute version of Say a Little Prayer: Natalie Cole & Whitney Houston.

Wow! Natalie Cole can actually belt!

At least Aretha's vocalization on Say a Little Prayer is very different than Dionne's.

Ed Sullivan introducing "Diane" Warwick to the audience. Dionne must've cringed at that, probably thinking he had Diana Ross on the brain.

She sings Herb Alpert's song exquisitely, though.

Dionne is only one song behind Madonna on the list of female artists with the most Hot 100 entries. Most people would think that Madonna would be far ahead of her, but nope. Did you know that Dionne was that successful on the Hot 100 chart? She's had a massive amount of hits in her career.

Dionne has had more hits than Connie Francis, Whitney, Mariah, Celine, Paula and Janet. Pretty impressive. I just don't understand how she could be broke today when she had so many hits during her career?

I love that live cover of Stevie Wonder's All In Love Is Fair. Dionne sang her fucking ass off on that!

She should be quite wealthy, with the career she's had. I don't know what happened to all the money.

Cilla isn't really known over here, but in the UK she was apparently the most hated woman in show business.

Cilla Black had a bad reputation. She also wasn't anywhere near Dionne's level of talent.

Burt Bachteract really didn't have an exceptional track record re hit records. He charted just high enough to be known - to get his stuff some listeners. Of course, he and his work, along with David and Dionne and others are irreplaceably interwoven with the 60s pop culture.

[quote] Not sure what "every note ... exactly as written" means. I do think there are some things about a singer's voice that you just can't control, serendipitous things that are delightful.

Some singers love to intentionally embroider off a composer's notes written on the page, and add flourishes or alter chords or whatever.

Richard Rodgers famously hated that, and just wanted his songs sung eactly as written. that's why he preferred singers like Shirley Jones singiong his songs--they were too unimaginative to play with notes. I think he actually would not have been happy to have had Sinatra sing Billy Bigelow because Sinatra loved playing around with what was written.

[quote]Burt Bachteract really didn't have an exceptional track record re hit records. He charted just high enough to be known - to get his stuff some listeners.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Burt ignored his mentally disabled daughter who ended up killing herself.

R143 No you don't.

Claiming that "He charted just high enough to be known - to get his stuff some listeners" is absurd.

He was a personality, a celebrity in the 1960s appearing on variety shows and even having his own TV special. I can't think of another songwriter ever had one.

He was well known to the American public. Rare for a songwriter.

Songs like "Raindrops" and "Close to You" to cite just two, got constant airplay. It seemed like every 15 minutes.

And since his songs were covered in different versions by different artists, his songs were a constant on the radio.

And as far as charting goes: Bacharach was writing what was for the most part "adult" music. He was competing against rock and all sorts of new sounds. The Beatles, the British Invasion, Motown. Even so, he had a slew of his songs in the top 20.

He and his music were a HUGE presence in the 1960s.

Thank you for that passionate retort, R146 - seriously. Thank you for sharing your greater knowledge concerning the matter. I humbly stand corrected. Have a nice evening, pal (I'm EST).

- R143

Bacharach hosting the Kraft Music Hall. Nice intro for Dionne.

For the idiot at R143:

Please name another songwriter, not singer/songwriter, that would have been given such an intro in 1968:

Bacharach and wife Angie Dickinson hosting the Kraft Music Hall. With Dusty Springfield being fabulous.

Bacharach and wife Angie Dickinson hosting the Hollywood Palace . With Dusty Springfield being fabulous.

I completely rescind my post at R147 - R149, fuck off asshole!

- R143

R134, Dionne did bristle at being called Diane, and it wasn't the only time.

When he finally got it right, on her very last visit to Sullivan, she celebrated. She had a sense of humor about it at least.

What's funny is Dionne is not that unusual a name for a girl now, but it was because Dionne Warwick popularized it.

It's like the name "Farrah"--it seemed so exotic when Farrah Fawcett-Majors appeared on the scene, but it's pretty ordinary now (albeit tacky).

R146, Burt was a "personality" in the 1970s. His songs were well known in the 1960s, but he was not a household name until "Raindrops are..."

[quote] At least Aretha's vocalization on Say a Little Prayer is very different than Dionne's.

Burt did say he preferred Aretha's arrangement of the song over the one he produced for Dionne. Even in the video where you see Burt, Hal and Dionne working out the kinks of Say a Little Prayer, he kept saying throughout "I don't like it. I don't like it."

Both versions are classics in their own right.

Saw Aretha at Radio City toward the end. I think it was her last tour, which I heard she did only because she needed the money--they were foreclosing on her house in Detroit or something like that. She was great (of course) but, my God, so fat. At one point she lost one of the slippers she was wearing. She couldn't bend down to pick it up, so a teenage assistant scurried out from behind the curtain, retrieved it , and slipped it back on her foot.

Apparently she was famous for the meals she served at home in Detroit and the who's who who attended them. Would love to hear about that if anyone knows anything about it.

[Quote]When he finally got it right, on her very last visit to Sullivan, she celebrated.

Actually, r153, in the clip posted below, he managed to correctly pronounce her name before her last visit on his show. In fact, this happened BEFORE the clip I posted in r134. Ed was always forgetful at pronunciation.

Also, you can tell she had her teeth fixed between this performance and her later performance at r134.

R135 Dionne does not have more hits than Connie. Connie's hits from 1958 are not included in her tally as they were before the Billboard Hot 100 charts began. Who's Sorry Now, I'm Sorry I Made You Cry, and Stupid Cupid need to be added to that total.

[quote]Burt was a "personality" in the 1970s.

By 1970 he was already on the cover of Newsweek.

[quote]Dionne does not have more hits than Connie. Connie's hits from 1958 are not included in her tally as they were before the Billboard Hot 100 charts began. Who's Sorry Now, I'm Sorry I Made You Cry, and Stupid Cupid need to be added to that total.

Dionne had hits that lasted. Today no one cares about Who's Sorry Now, I'm Sorry I Made You Cry, and Stupid Cupid

The difference between Dionne and Whitney. Dionne was told how to interpret and phrase her songs, Whitney was given the freedom to sing the songs how she felt they needed to be interpreted and writers and producers trusted her talent.

What's missing when the voice of Whitney Houston is analyzed is what an amazing interpreter of melody and lyric she was. Cissy and Dionne were great singers, but esp Cissy had no idea what to do with a melody.

[quote]I just don't understand how she could be broke today when she had so many hits during her career?

She didn't write any songs. The money is in the royalties.

[quote] The difference between Dionne and Whitney. Dionne was told how to interpret and phrase her songs, Whitney was given the freedom to sing the songs how she felt they needed to be interpreted and writers and producers trusted her talent.

That's really not true with Whitney's early recordings. Clive made her re-record most of her songs from her debut because she Gospelfied them too much and had her do them straightforward. It was in her live concerts where she let loose with her improvisations and restructure songs by stretching some of them into a 12:00 minute anthems.

She was a phenomenal interrupter who can take the most basic of Pop songs sound unique with her singing alone. However she didn't have much freedom to record the songs how she wanted in the beginning of her career.

That may be R164, she was more pop and white on her early albums. But Narada Michael Walden who worked with her on How Will I Know did say in an interview that she instinctively knew what to do with a song and even came up with ideas for the arrangement, key, rhythm structure etc, that he then incorporated.

I think that talent was probably also the reason why she was such a great live performer. She could really be spontaneous, loose and playful and make a song her own.

R160, 1970 IS THE SEVENTIES.

Got a date is a good track.

[quote]1970 IS THE SEVENTIES.

Yeah, right. As if he was unknown to the American public and the SUDDENLY turned up on the cover of a major magazine at the start of a new decade. Or that this unheard of person SUDDENLY wound up hosting the Hollywood Palace and Kraft and having a Singer TV special.

Bacharach was well known to the American public in the 60s. From his marriage to Angie Dickenson in 1965. He was doing the Tonight Show, Merv Griffin, Mike Douglas. Variety shows. See the clip above getting star treatment in 1968 from Andy Williams.

Architectural Digest, 1971

The person who claims Burt Bacharach was not well known needs to be publicly buggywhipped on a daily basis.

[quote] She didn't write any songs. The money is in the royalties.

She had a very long career, though. I understand how one-hit wonders end up with no money (first contract skewed to the record company, etc.). But Dionne worked long enough to know her worth and to get more money for performances / recordings as time went on.

She has admitted she spends if she wants something.

IMO, she's bad with money. Hence, Psychic Friend, The Apprentice, etc. Touring? Maybe she enjoys that, the adulation from the audience. Her voice is not what it used to be, but I think she did a decent job in 2018 at the Java Jazz Festival.

R169, wow, good find. I hate it (Dionne's house).

The very height of......elevator music!

[quote]As if he was unknown to the American public and the SUDDENLY turned up on the cover of a major magazine at the start of a new decade.

Do you know that publicists get people on the cover of magazines? News magazines choose if a show biz personality is newsworthy enough to put on the cover, but it isn't their idea alone. One of the projects that put Bacharach over the top besides the song from Butch Cassidy was the musical version of The Apartment in 1968, Promises Promises. Four big songs came out of the show - I think all of them covered by Dionne.

[quote]Do you know that publicists get people on the cover of magazines?

Duh. Really? Who knew?

His fame with the general public started with his marriage to Angie Dickinson in 1965. They were a handsome glamorous couple and there was a lot of interest about them in magazines and the gossip columns.

In 1968 he was making the rounds of talk shows and Variety shows in the promotion of Promises Promises.

Raindrops was released in 1969. By then he had had massive hits that were popular with the public.

On January 1970 he was hosting the Hollywood Palace.

By the latter half of the 1960s he was well known to the American public.

R175, you're repeating yourself (R168).

There's now a safe space people can discuss Dionne or any other artists and their versions of Bacharach & David classics.

r172 it looks awful by modern standards, but I think the decor was pretty fashionable in the early 70s. Perhaps some of our elders could chime in.

Dionne is a masterful phraser herself, she had the skill to impart her own energy and musicality along with observing Bacharach's intentions and directions. Dionne was a muse to him musically, she had the ability to make those difficult songs work and FLOW consistently.

Dionne had to go to the theatre to give a demo of Promises Promises to Orbach to give him the blueprint of how to sing it.

Thank you, R181. I was just about to mention that when someone up-thread posted Orbach's version of the tune. He didn't know how to sing Promises, Promises until he listened to Dionne's original.

Dionne talking about Dusty, managing to throw shade at Cilla and Wishin' And Hopin'.

[quote]I love Dionne. I recognize there are better singers among her contemporaries, but I just like her vocals better.

Same here.

R83 That actually sounds better than Barbra's version.

R185 - I skipped over R83's post but after seeing your post, I gave it a listen. I don't know about "better," but I really liked it too.

Dionne has always been obsessed with Streisand. She talks about her often in interviews and she worked with Barry Gibb on Heartbreaker because of Barbra's Guilty album.

She even shaded Babs on doing disco.

[quote] She was a phenomenal interrupter who can

EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME! Di-ANE, I'm sorry to interrupt, but show me the RECEIPTS! Show me the RECEIPTS, Di-ANE!

I have no B.S. obsession. Miss Stridentstan has had a very successful career, and with the Borscht Belt looking like 25-miles-outside-of-Memphis, a certain audience somehow is still alive in their nursing homes to like her sort of entertainment. She always sounds good between bingo games, I hear, during the breaks when a Depends check is made.

Honestly, you people just make up gossip. And, hennies, you have to know that the best fucking stories are the ones you never get to hear.

I have revenue just for keeping my mouth discreet about some things. Like Clinton fucking Barbrba in the ass on the Lincoln Bed. And J-Load still selling her gashy old snatch to Arabs. And Re's oldest's original birth certificate. And Anita Baker's bulimia (She couldn't keep steady on anything - you saw how she couldn't keep the tonnage down enough to ride a barge from Padukah to Vicksburg with the other corn. And even that someone's window-splat baby wasn't even his.

Oops. Shit.

R187, that reminds me of Dionne's recent gentle criticism of Streisand's venture into disco. Dionne had already stated in the interview that disco was not for her. Speaking figuratively, she said she had ceased being "friends" with Streisand because "enough WAS enough." It was very clear that Dionne meant she liked much of Streisand's work, but not the disco. (Obsessed is absurd).

Well, leave it to Miss Streisand's psychotic fans to turn this into a "Dionne has dementia," Dionne is jealous," Dionne is on drugs" discussion on that big worshipping forum Tapatalk. The ignorance, and inability to read anything that is not to be taken literally was so profound that it stopped me from arguing with idiots online. That means any idiots, in any forum.

Sorry, R188, I jumped the gun.

Actually, R191, I liked your reasoned out response. It's true, people like to make a lot of hay with "diva vs. diva", when in fact they don't think too much about each other at all. They are all pretty self-centered and busy with their projects, and occasionally get competitive when called for, but ultimately do respect each other in certain ways.

But it's funny that Dionne would shade Barbra over disco attempts. Her 1979 album "Dionne" produced by Manilow, was filled with disco elements.

Actually, R188's video is not the one I'm referring to - it was another interview. Dionne must have bee sing that Enough is ENOUGH bit as a joke. It got a laugh, twice. R193, true. It's like people always assuming actors are movie fans and see everything when the reality for most of them is - it's a job.

She was named after a character from "Clueless."

R190 How crude and unfunny.

Dionne's voice explained.

Someone posted this video upthread, but I can't find the post.

Anyway, I found it interesting. She used to hold her microphone really low, like below waist-level. She was a bad-ass. I didn't realize how powerful her voice was.

Then ... smoking took its toll.

I fail to see anything special with her voice. She seems marginally better then Taylor Swift. I think anything she's put out could have been covered by anyone and sounded fine. Diana Ross could have made some of the songs a bit less boring.

She can sing, but her music was forgettable. Not one of her songs make me want to get up and dance, much less tap m foot for more than 10 sec.

Actually, she reminds of P!NK, a singer that has vocal chops, pumps out albums people wouldn't miss, and hovering around the billboard top 100 with her elevator music.

r199 has no idea what he's talking about

R197 thinks she's the minister's wife just because she blew an altar boy once.

[quote] is she looked down upon by other singers from her era who were big emoters / actors when they sang, like Streisand?

Streisand's style was old fashioned in the 60s - she sang old songs and the camping it up sounded old fashioned to the young and hip. If anything Streisand was looked down upon by many people then as uncool.

Big emoting came back in the 80s and never went away....and all that shrieking.

In the 60s the melody did the work.

I'll never understand how melody disappeared from popular music.

I really don’t even know what a melody is. I always thought that was the hook or maybe the part the lead sings. I’m so confused.

Also, how did Streisand sell albums like hot cakes in 60s if her sound was dated? Was every Jew in the Western World buying them in bulk?

[quote]Streisand's style was old fashioned in the 60s - she sang old songs and the camping it up sounded old fashioned to the young and hip. If anything Streisand was looked down upon by many people then as uncool.

You obviously were not around back then.

[quote] I'll never understand how melody disappeared from popular music.

Yes, even heavy metal was melodic.

R205 beat me to it. R203, you're dreaming.

Streisand was not dated in the 1960s and very early 1970s, and at various times after that she managed to connect older and news forms.

The issue always has been her lack of innate musical judgment. Her impulses towards control cut off some influences that could have helped her mature more broadly. She habitually over-embellished and decorated her music, both in vocalization and in orchestration. She wanted her songs about love to seem lush, and to present herself as the ideal, usually through intricate stylings that did not match the lyrics and emotions of the phrases. Meaning it often was too much. TOO MUCH.

So she was the ideal strong woman, the ideal victim, the ideal lover, the ideal goofball. The last was frequently a great area for her - her comedic gifts could find a way through the thick veneer of overstatement, exaggeration and beating people's ears up with ego-stroked range displays and a tendency to sing every song like it is about Creation or the End of Days.

Streisand sang through her nose. I can't get into vocalists who do that.

I loved her until she cheated AIDs charities and spent the money on her personal expenses. I saw her and Elton perform "That's What Love Is For" many years ago - very moving - in memory of those who had died. My favorite Dionne hit is "Promises, Promises".

R210, I think that issue is exaggerated.

She did raise a great deal of money, and worked as Ambassador of Health. This is true.

It is also true that the organizations involved tended to pamper celebrities with First Class travel and hotels they were accustomed to when flying them to events. Dionne didn't make any movement to STOP such pampering, that is true. But she did not make special demands and did not spend all the money on her personal expenses.

She dresses like Fred Sanford and is a total bitch now. Move on.

I met her in the SF Admiral's club and spent 4 - 6 hours with her. She was very friendly and showed me how to win lotteries. She did not want to talk about her career or her music. We did talk a little about gospel music. She was very butch and dressed in dumpy men's clothes. I had been a HUGE fan all my life and somehow had imagined she was a glamorous diva in everyday life. She was a chain-smoker, too, which was a turn-off for me as well. She had me convinced her lottery system would make me rich... alas!

Can you elaborate on what her lottery system was?

She still smokes like a chimney. It's amazing she's made it to age 80. Some people are just lucky like that.

[quote]She still smokes like a chimney

I doubt it.

Barbra gave up the heavy smoking in the 1970s

That happened in the mid 80's.

Who has the inside scoop on "Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang?"

Miss Warwick had a piece of Philip Michael Thomas in his prime?!?!

Say it ain't so!

I don't think Barbra was ever a regular, daily smoker, it was just off and on with her and she stopped many years ago.

R222 She simply didn't have the range for Bond.

Whatever she was, R224, it continued into the 1990s at least.

I like Dionne Warwick, but I've always been puzzled by the claim that there's something exceptional about her singing...but I know fuck-all about singing, so I'm willing to admit there's probably something there that I'm not picking up on.

For me, she's somebody who was lucky to have been born with a singing voice that is instantly recognizable, but it was just one part of the whole package. She came along at a time when white audiences were looking for a certain type of black female performer...not too "black" as to offend their mainstream sensibilities, and exotically beautiful, sophisticated and glamorous. (The Supremes and the girls from the 5th Dimension also fit into that role, but Dionne really personified it.) And the Bacharach/David songs she was given to sing fit perfectly into that package. So she carved out a really unique little niche for herself in the music world, and there's never been anybody else quite like her...especially during her 60's heyday.

I think whoever said that Bacharach wanted his songs sung exactly as written is correct. I recall reading an interview with him in the late 90's, at a time when Jamaican singer Diana King was on the charts with her reggae cover of "I Say a Little Prayer". The interviewer played it for Burt, and he HATED it, because she took liberties. On the chorus, instead of "you'll stay in my heart, and I will love you" and "together, together, that's how it must be to live without you...", she just sang "and I'll love you" and "that's how it should be without you". Those phrases as originally written carry a lot of emphasis, and she just did away with them, and he wasn't happy with it. And he mentioned that that happened a lot with people who covered his songs...they don't know how to sing them properly. So yeah, he's very exacting when it comes to how he wants his songs sung.

I actually prefer the Aretha cover of "Prayer" to Dionne's. I like the move of the background singers carrying most of the melody, and the lead singer mainly just chiming in for emphasis. It's an interesting approach that wasn't done all that often, so I enjoy it when I hear it.

And yeah, Aretha could be extremely petty...she was such a strange mixture of egomania and deep insecurity. I'm sure it was unpleasant to be around, but fortunately, I never had to be around her, so I can just enjoy the all crazy stories.

[quote]She came along at a time when white audiences were looking for a certain type of black female performer...not too "black" as to offend their mainstream sensibilities,

You don't know what you're talking about.

Aretha and Tina Turner were a huge stars in the same time frame as Dionne.

And in the early 60s there was Etta James.

Of course audiences responded to the cool chic Dionne Warwick....shouldn't they have?

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Not "too" black?

Have you ever seen me, asshole?

The only thing I'll "pass" on is you.

Dionne has run hot and cold on Barbra throughout the years. In her book, she said she had gone to see Streisand's opening at the International Hotel and was offended by how cold and aloof Streisand was to the audience, almost like she was annoyed with them. It wasn't a fake story because even Streisand biographies have gone on record saying that International opening was one of her few bombs because she failed to connect with the audience.

Dionne back in the day was like Diahann Carroll. Very refined and elegant. Not the woman of the last ten years who wears jogging pants to concerts.

[quote]I actually prefer the Aretha cover of "Prayer" to Dionne's.

Yes, but Aretha's version of This Girl's In Love With You pales in comparison to Dionne's.

Aretha could very hit or miss herself in her remakes.

[quote]So she carved out a really unique little niche for herself in the music world, and there's never been anybody else quite like her...especially during her 60's heyday.

There were other "Dionne" type singers in the 60s. Not hit makers but a constant presence on television.

Nancy Wilson, Leslie Uggams, Barbara McNair.

McNair even had her own TV special in 1966 and then her own show.

The lovely Leslie Uggams doing a black Barbra thing. 1965.

I remember I was in a music store and the clerk was playing a '60s-era album. It sounded like Dionne but I had never heard her sing like this. It was very soulful and sure enough when I asked the clerk what he was playing, he showed me a copy of the CD. It was called "Soulful" by Dionne Warwick. It was an album Rhino had reissued back in the early '00s. I had to buy it. It was pretty expensive but well worth it. It features Dionne singing the soul hits of the late '60s including Aretha.

Stephanie Mills had an excellent remake of Loneliness Remembers. (I believe her version was also produced by Burt and Hal, too.)

R230 Streisand was a FAR bigger star that Dionne in 1969, and in the entire decade. She wouldn't have given a shit what some 45 hit singer thought of her. Yes, Streisand wasn't good at relating to audiences from the stage, SO?

[quote]white audiences were looking for a certain type of black female

When someone says something like that, you know they're full of shit.

She's a no good heartbreaker, she's a liar, and she's a cheat!

[quote]Streisand was a FAR bigger star that Dionne in 1969, and in the entire decade.

Lay off the crackpipe.

Dionne racked up almost thirty top 40 entries during the 60's AND a string of gold selling albums AND singles. She's one of the most charted female singers in Billboard history.

Don't hate on Dionne because she said Babs attitude was for shit (like pretty much everyone else in entertainment has said)

Even Aretha said that Streisand got to where she was because of good management.

I always preferred Marilyn McCoo over Dionne. She had a better voice and was a better singer. She also had a more likable personality.

It's funny that she ended up replacing Dionne on Solid Gold and made it into a better show.

Dionne was wonderful but Streisand was more than a pop star.

The sheep are back to loving Barbra this week?

Next week must be when she turns back into some hag who got lucky.

[quote] but he was not a household name until "Raindrops are..."

There was no such song as "Raindrops are...".

Burt Bacharach did have a big hit called "Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head" that was featured in [italic]Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.[/italic] Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

Dionne and Marilyn McCoo both hosted "Solid Gold" in the 80's . My partner and I met in 86 and he remembers how into that show I was. I sang along. I found the dance moves along to the count down music to be very sexy. You had to be there.

Dionne Warwick, not counting the Psychic Network junk, was/is a major talent and influencer. Many subpar imitators, but only one Dionne Warwick. Her vocals are unique, smooth and soft. Her music doesn't have to scream at you to pull you in and is timeless, heart touching.

My links are the most badass of all Dionne links!

Dionne and Johnny Mathis on "Solid Gold".

ive never seen such an odd shaped skull on a human being as D's.

R238 = wasn't born in the 60s, reads a lot

R242 = didn't read the "posted by" comment - I can't type that terrible song in its entirety

Echoing the sentiment from above - the two releases "Soulful" and "From Within" feature a very different Dionne than what you heard in the 60s, fresh from divorce from her husband Bill Elliot and a separation from Bacharach/David. She was going in deep and recording all kinds of different songs before her Manilow comeback in 1979.

Here's her beautiful rendition of Nina Simone's "To Be Young Gifted and Black"., with her sister Dee Dee singing backup. Far better than the original, in my opinion, "and I do respect my opinion", as D often says.

R247: Sounds like she used Donny Hathaway's arrangement of To Be Young, Gifted, and Black for her version. I mean I don't blame her, his version is the gold standard.

Was Dionne mostly into pot or did she do the occasional line of coke?

Jesus, R249, haven't you ever looked into Dionne's nostrils and into her brain?

I've never heard anything about Dionne and hard drugs or alcohol, just Virginia Slims and weed.

She loves her coffee and her tea. I've never known her to be much of a drinker at all, and definitely not a cokehead.

Coffee, tea and weed. A woman after my own heart.

There's a great clip of Babs on the Judy Garland TV show from when she was just starting out. They're doing a duet which melds "Happy Days Are Here Again" and "Get Happy." Babs's voice is so big that when she starts belting out her part, Judy sort of tugs at her arm to subtly let her know that she needs to cool it a little. Babs seems to get the message.

R254, which has nothing to do with Dionne.

And back to Dionne...how is her Friends album? Any good?

This thread is cashed, Hussy!

R227) it's not her it's you

R259 I also loved Barbra in that film.

I loved her as the Madam in Rent-A-Cop with Burt and Liza.

Too bad she and Liza didn't get to do a duet together.

I loved her as the Emma in Johnny Guitar with Joan Crawford and Sterling Hayden.

Too bad she and Joan didn't get to do a duet together.

Oddly, there isn't much focus on her training. She came up in a family gospel act and then had conservatory training. Both probably taught her control and how to use her range, in different ways. She charted with Bacharach/David show tunes when that kind of music was dying out which tells you something about her ability to reach a wide audience. She was losing some of her range (all that smoking) by the late 70s and I think most of her stuff since then has been forgettable, but her 60s catalog is more than most singers ever have.

Ross had a rather thin voice and her vocal training was Motown and perhaps the Detroit Public Schools (most of the Motown singers were not church-y and some historians of Motown think the schools were important for their development).

Nancy Wilson really can't be compared with Warwick, she was much more of a jazz singer.

There was also Diahann Carroll

Diahann Carroll was a Broadway actress in the 1960s, seen as one. She had record albums, she was on TV variety, she had that TV show in 1968. Later more TV roles and more nightclub singing. But like Streisand, Diahann Carroll was a different category than Dionne Warwick.

D was really fantastic in Slaves, playing a tough diva of a slave who winds up negotiating her own freedom.

The whole movie is linked below.

[quote] Nancy Wilson really can't be compared with Warwick, she was much more of a jazz singer.

What do I know about jazz, but Dionne's voice always seemed cool and jazzy to me.

The point is there was a whole bunch of black female singers back in the 1960s, all trim, elegantly dressed and coiffed singing "adult" style music.

R268, You might be just equating the smooth sounds of jazz singers with the sultry sounds of Dionne, and you aren't wrong there.

But a jazz/blues singer is one that is modeled more off of a very specific classic style like Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday and others in their time.

This is a very different style than Dionne's, who was following a unique blend of pop, R&B, gospel and South American sensibilities. One can't ignore Bacharach's deep influence by Brazilian Bossa Nova stylings. Dionne became so good at these vocal stylings, and her tours through Brazil were so successful, she bought a house there and became an 'honorary Brazilian' for many years. This is all very different than jazz.

R270: You're missing her conservatory training which is evident in her 60s singing.

Ok R271, but what genre would you tag that with, if you were to add a specific genre to my list of D's genres?

[quote]One can't ignore Bacharach's deep influence by Brazilian Bossa Nova stylings.

His work also sounded very influenced by the Italian and French. pop music of the early 60s.

R255 People were talking about Babs up the thread.

Diahann was a better singer than Dionne, even though Dionne had a technically superior voice.

Diahann was an actress who sings like Streisand, as you can see in this clip with Judy Garland.

Sorry, but Diahann was ridiculous singing as Dominique Devereux. Who wanted to hear that shitty, cheese-ass music?

Dominique Devereux was quite shitty to me at the Essence Awards when I gave a tribute to the late, great Lena Horne.

And no, as much as I dislike De'Andre, Dominique Devereux was NOT a better singer than him.

Get this, on (new) Dynasty, Dominique Devereux is the MOTHER of Jeff Colby. She and Blake are (still) siblings, meaning that Jeff and Fallon are first cousins. That really fucks with my mind.

Lena despised Diahann Carroll. She had a superficial friendship with Dionne so she could claim an interest in black performers.

Shade. One of the best scenes of Dynasty.

[quote]Diahann was a better singer than Dionne

In pop music that means little.

Dionne had a "sound".

Diahann did not.

Diahann Carroll was extremely competent at everything she did. She was a very good singer, a pretty good actress, she was a beautiful woman. HOWEVER, she had little charism, magnetism or presence. There are much lesser talents who had the latter, and became bigger stars because of it.

I broke up to a BF to this song.

The song is sad enough but at 2:30 when she goes up an octave.....I sobbed.

MARY!

Do you think Dionne writes her tweets or a witty queen writes them on her behalf?

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